Nights and Days and In and Out of Weeks: Discovering WHERE THE WILD THINGS ARE
By Pat McGuire on December 1, 2009
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A note from the director:
The idea behind this story is to present a piece that includes as many people as possible who were involved in the making of Where the Wild Things Are. Most of the time, magazine pieces just represent one part of making a movie, and I’m excited about this story because it represents the truer spirit of our film-a group of people who got together to make this thing. It was the experiences of all these people, the talents of all these people... their imaginations and everything inside them that made the movie what it is.
While we were filming, the biggest guideline we operated by was to just be true to the character of Max. Max is 9 years old. We wanted to make sure that we didn’t put our adult selves into the movie or burden Max with any of our crap. “Don’t betray Max,” as Maurice would say.
Everyday we’d have to pull back and make what we were doing more innocent and naïve. We’d have to find that fine line. From the art and sets we’d designed-what the forts look like, or how the huts look... the Wild Things built a fort and it could have looked like anything-everyday it was finding that fine line between indulging our adult imaginations and being true to 9-year-old Max.
I’m excited to have a piece that represents how Where the Wild Things Are was made-which is with my friends and a group of artists I deeply admire.
- Spike Jonze
Spike Jonze (Director/Writer) Vs. Karen O (Composer)
A constant that comes up when talking about the film is that it speaks to the two-sidedness of childhood-that fearlessness mixed with fear. Can you describe your own childhoods?
SPIKE JONZE: That’s a good way to put it. I definitely felt-and this is what the movie’s about-that, when I was a kid, the things that felt out of control were really scary, and when I would get mad, somebody else would be upset. Feeling out-of-control emotions were scary and that’s what I was writing about in the script.
KAREN O: What about the good times?
SPIKE: See, Karen keeps me in check. [Laughs] That’s actually what she said when she read the first draft four years ago, too.
KAREN: That script wasn’t as much of a balance between the happy and the heavy-it was pretty dark and heavy.
I had a pretty good time when I was a kid. I was really silly, so there was a lot of laughter. But I also had an outsider mentality. Even when I was a part of a group, I was always on my own wavelength; always a bit separated.
SPIKE: I feel like I knew Karen as a kid. One of the reasons why we’ve always gotten along is because of our goofy sides; I really relate to her. I feel like I can picture her when she was 6-years-old-spacey, imaginative, goofball, playful...
KAREN: You were really hyper, right? You’re a pretty hyper person. You must have had that energy as a kid.
SPIKE: I could be hyper, but I could also be lost in whatever I was doing. I was very thoughtful.
KAREN: [Laughs] Brooding.
Do you think a career in art is an extension of childhood?
SPIKE: On one level. Some of my fondest childhood memories are of making things with friends-just playing. When you hang out with kids, you realize all they want to do is play. Their activities are specific, but if you can make a game out of something, they’ll always gravitate towards that. And getting to make stuff for a career-you get to continue that pursuit.
KAREN: The sandbox pursuit. That’s how you pull yourself back in: When making art becomes difficult, you just remind yourself to move back to the sandbox as a way to get out of the funk. You gotta remind yourself it’s “playing”- that’s all it really is.
Is that hour when you’re onstage playing music the highlight of your day?
KAREN: It’s gotta be, even though the anticipation of having to do it can sometimes feel insurmountable. But once I’m up there, especially these days, we’re like, “Alright, there’s not going to be a party after the show-the party’s onstage!”
How does that translate to an 18-hour day on a film set?
SPIKE: There’s stress, for sure, and a certain amount of worrying about the responsible part-”I have this many hours on set, I have to get this many shots, and I have to tell this scene as well as I can.” It’s balancing the responsibility and the enjoyment. I feel like the fun gets more threatened; it can’t be fun all the time, but it should be some of the time. It’s always the business side, the realities and practicalities that make it less fun. But just keeping that in perspective helps maintain the balance. We’re making a short film right now about robots and it’s really chaotic, but then in the shop it hit me that I get to make robots right now for a living. [Laughs] Also, I work with a lot of my friends and that helps keep it in perspective. It helps make it feel like we’re experiencing it together. Karen, you work with people you love...
KAREN: I get an audience. I have the immediate gratification of screaming fans jumping up and down. You don’t so much, you know?
SPIKE: Yeah! Earlier today, I was like, “Karen, look at my robots!” My friends become my audience.
[Wild Things composer] Carter Burwell said it was hard for him to write emotionally complex music that felt like it came from a child’s world. Did you experience that difficulty?
KAREN: No-I think that in some ways, that’s all I really had. [Laughs] Of course, I assembled all these musicians who are my good friends and my favorite players and they were a huge asset, but in the end I felt that it was really my connection to the child inside-the child’s spirit-and being able to see things from Max’s point of view. I really wanted the music for this movie to feel as natural as possible, because that’s something kids will notice immediately; they’ll push away things that feel fake. So, in order to achieve that, I had to dig deep and not make music for Spike’s film but make music that could have existed with or without it. By knowing and feeling the emotions that he wanted to convey early on, I just let it simmer inside of me. As an artist, I make music from the things I feel; I don’t make music to convey a feeling. The only hard time I had making music for this movie was when I wasn’t feeling the emotion of the scene. I always had to feel like it was coming from within. I got there in the end-with a lot of help from my friends.
How did you first begin discussing the music for the film?
SPIKE: Karen knew the movie really well because she read the script a few times and gave me notes and I had talked to her so much about it when I was writing. We were already so in sync; it just seemed natural.
KAREN: You just asked me if I wanted to make the music for it. And we talked about the Langley School.
SPIKE: The Langley School Music Project! This music teacher in Canada in the ‘70s had started teaching elementary school music class; he was in a band, and he hated the children’s songs he was teaching. So he started bringing in Brian Wilson, David Bowie and Paul McCartney music and teaching the kids these songs. The kids instantly gravitated towards the songs for the same reason Karen is talking about-when something’s honest, you connect to it. And so these kids are singing with such feeling but with so many imperfections, and that’s sort of what Carter was talking about: It’s not technically sophisticated, but it’s emotionally complicated. And they’re tapping into it; they’re singing “God Only Knows” and they’re feeling it.
I identify with the kids. When I was young, I would be home alone after school and sing along to “I Will Survive” really loudly. And that song is like a jilted lover song, but for whatever reason, I was feeling it. Karen and I were talking about those songs we knew as kids and how you connect to them even though you don’t really relate to the specifics-you relate to the emotions.
How did you apply that to the Wild Things score?
SPIKE: At first, we were wide open: Should it be kids playing the music? Karen singing? Karen and the kids? We put that aside and I said, “Maybe you should just go write the music with the people you want and record it that way, and then we can add kids later.” Kids ended up in it a little bit, but I think the spirit is the same: These are the kinds of songs that, if I was a kid, I would sing along to and feel. It was a lot of fun when we brought the kids in. They sing backup on a few songs, and with such feeling. It was like, “OK, these songs pass the test.”
Did you have to provoke that enthusiasm from the kids or was it just innate?
KAREN: For being so in touch with my inner-child, I’m so intimidated by kids. I was a very shy kid and I’ll never grow out of it.
SPIKE: I was shy until I started directing. Then, I realized I just had to jump in there. With the kids, I could have either been shy, not said anything and not gotten what we wanted from them; or, I could jump in there and make a fool out of myself and get the kids hyped up. So, Karen and I made fools of ourselves. We threw all the sheet music up in the air and the kids were screaming-and Karen was right there, teaching them how to rock out.
How did you decide to include songs in the score?
SPIKE: I’d never done a score that had songs in it; I’ve always thought that having a score is more invisible. But because this was a children’s film, I associated pop songs more with being a kid than classical-if this is 9-year-old Max’s movie, he would never put an orchestra in it. Karen, I feel like a lot of your stuff starts really simple, with a melody and a feeling. I watch you add to it but I can tell you’re never betraying that initial thought. Watching you make music for this film was really different than the way I’ve ever seen a score made.
KAREN: I’ve never seen a score made; this was all I know. I brought people to play on the score who I had made music with and who were coming at it from the right place and were very intuitive: “Even though I can do this amazing thing doesn’t mean I’m going to; I’m gonna do what feels right...”
SPIKE: They don’t have to ruin it with the flourishes; they can be confident that just these notes are enough. When we did the score with Carter and the world-class philharmonic musicians, I kept saying, “It needs to be simpler. I love the complexity of the melody but the playing is too complex; I want it to be more na•ve.” It was hard to get one of the top 20 violinists in the world to play simple.
KAREN: That’s when you know someone is really good, when they can simplify and still capture the feeling. It’s frustrating because I always have to rely on someone else to make what I hear in my head happen, because my playing is very rudimentary. But [the Wild Things musicians] are maestros, and me leading them was good because my agenda is only for the pure and natural.
SPIKE: Describe who’s involved... Say all the people and why you picked them.
KAREN: We’ll be here for hours... Imaad Wasif is a singer/songwriter the Yeah Yeah Yeahs brought on the road with us. He’s my favorite acoustic guitar player, he’s so beautiful and emotive and, again, so intuitive. And Jack Lawrence, who is in The Dead Weather and The Raconteurs... I’ve known him for a really long time; he’s an angel and his bass playing is magnificent. And Dean Fertita, who I met through Jack... Later on I brought Nick Zinner and Brian Chase in from Yeah Yeah Yeahs and a friend of mine, Tristan Bechet, who was in one of my favorite bands in New York [Services]. And Greg Kurstin from The Bird and the Bee on piano... I had this supergroup of soulful players. Bradford Cox [Deerhunter/Atlas Sound] I brought in because he has such a fine sense of melody and can play anything-and to be what I’d call the “wild card,” because his personality is certainly wild... he’s larger than life, but he’s right on the money with everything.
SPIKE: Even just a couple weeks ago when we couldn’t think of a name for this band, we called Bradford and within 20 minutes we had 50 names.
KAREN: We picked “Karen O and The Kids.” Because that’s what we all were when we were writing the music. There was so much love among that group of people.
Spike, does Karen’s musical direction sound similar to what you do with film?
SPIKE: Yeah, but I think music can be more intuitive. You have to end up talking more in making films-although Karen’s made films; she went to film school at NYU. But it’s funny, because I find music more inspiring than films. I can be much more inspired when a song captures a feeling and the music and the lyrics all feel like one complete thing.
KAREN: There are many different kinds of creative types but Spike and I are really similar. We’re spontaneous and know how to get the best out of the people we work with, but it’s very playful. But the main difference between me and him creatively-I’m always trying to do everything really lo-fi and I’ll work within really tiny means to make something happen; I just don’t think big as far as possibilities. When Spike made our “Y Control” video, he was writing down my ideas and I wanted these kids to do a conga line over a dead dog... and he’s like, “OK,” and I showed up and it’s a taxidermied golden retriever! You just have to say it with Spike and he can materialize any thought that goes through your head. That was a revelation for me-I would have tried to make it out of papier-mâché. But Spike can just make it happen, and that’s kind of the most amazing thing about Where the Wild Things Are. I was around when all the effects houses were telling him that he couldn’t do it; “Sorry, making those nine-foot creatures, it’s just not possible, you can’t do it.” Every single one told him that.
SPIKE: I love working with Karen because she will say anything; she’s freeform in her thinking. I love everything we’ve made together. The music she’s done for our movie is really special; when I first heard those songs they just instantly felt like they were in the film’s DNA. Everybody came to Where the Wild Things Are with such love for the book Maurice made, and I feel like everyone put themselves into it in such a wholehearted way.
Was there more synergy in making this film than your previous work?
SPIKE: Maybe because we’ve all known each other longer now and we’ve always worked together that way... It was a longer project and a lot more complicated and challenging to figure out. Every scene had a dozen specific challenges. It would take weeks of meetings to figure out the simplest things.
I also played music on set a lot to give the cast and crew the feeling of a scene. There’s nothing quicker. You can talk for 20 minutes trying to describe what the feeling is or you can just put on a piece of music and everyone just intuitively knows it and then everyone’s in that place. It was a really fun way to work.
KAREN: I just think everyone on the film is a big kid. They’re all really unconventional thinkers and artists, and that’s Spike’s club: people who, more than anything else, are kids trapped in adult bodies. Which is great for a kids’ film.
Dave Eggers (Writer)
What were your reading experiences as a child?
I grew up wanting to be a children’s book writer and illustrator and I made a lot of books when I was a kid. Maurice Sendak was a big influence, as were his Where the Wild Things Are, In the Night Kitchen and Pierre. All of his books were important to me-the illustrations in particular, because being an illustrator was what I was trained in when I was younger. Wild Things scared me as a kid... I was very freaked out by the Wild Things and how they didn’t conform to what was standard in children’s books where the intentions of monsters are much clearer. There was such nuance and menace in every expression of the monsters that were very unsettling to me. It was hard to tell what each creature had in mind for Max-that’s what made the book so complex and lasting.
People have said that the book captures the two sides of being a kid: complete and total fearlessness and absolute terror and fear of everything.
It’s one of the rare books that has an actual boy who is allowed to be a little bit out of control and unpleasant, but be very happy and proud to be king. There are only so many children’s books out there where the kids really misbehave and act out in ways that a child psychologist wouldn’t recommend. I mean, Max by contemporary standards would be in some kind of therapy-Maurice wasn’t concerned with what was P.C. and that’s why so many of his books were examined and sometimes condemned by child psychologists and other well-meaning “child advocates.”
The book was banned, correct?
I think it was banned and denounced because it had no clear message: The kid never apologizes, there’s no mother forgiving him at the end, there’s no resolution to any of the things he does wrong. He’s chasing a dog with a fork but we’re never told, “Oh, it’s wrong to chase a dog with a fork and here’s why.” There are so many elements of it that just aren’t resolved in a tidy way. What Maurice did with every book is so rare; it’s so pure and it comes from the subconscious more than anything else. I don’t think Maurice ever sat down and thought, “Well, what would a kid like?” or “What’s important to kids?” or “What should I do to educate kids?” It came from someplace deeper.
How did you get involved in the project?
I was very excited about the prospect of working on the movie and being able to collaborate with Spike. We originally met because I basically wrote him a fan letter... so between him and Maurice, here are two of my favorite artists. The first script was written from scratch and I didn’t know what the hell I was doing-I’d never written a script, and to this minute I still don’t know what constitutes a three-act structure. So, for a long time I was just trying to make order of what Spike wanted. The movie itself is much more Spike’s than mine, for sure. I was always in a support position, trying to help where I could and catch all of their great ideas to put them in an order that made sense.
Carter Burwell (Composer)
Spike originally wanted Karen’s songs to be all the music in the film, and she wrote songs before, during, and after the shoot. It was only after the film had been cut that he decided some scenes needed a dramatic underscore that could not be achieved with songs. So, I met Karen and we discussed how we’d approach the problem and agreed to divide the film scene by scene. Karen sang on a few of my pieces, and I did string arrangements on some of Karen’s pieces. Hopefully they all sound like they come from the same “place,” but we weren’t really writing together.
The more difficult problem was how to write emotionally complex music that felt as though it came from the mind of a child. I considered having the music played by young people, but the recording process is stressful and we had little time for rehearsal, so I felt we needed people who’d been through it before. I ended up asking a group of very skilled musicians to put aside a lot of their “art.” The playing needed to be in pitch and in time, but sound simple and artless.
Karen’s songs are just right but it’s not easy to say why. She’s not telling the story. They just sound like they come from inside the mind of a child, a child looking for something but he’s not sure what. I think my compositions are very simple to begin with, but Spike would often hear a counter-melody or a harmony and say, “That sounds kind of fancy.” That meant it sounded like the work of a grown-up and it was on its way to the wastebasket. But I suppose my favorite thing about Spike is his innate grasp of how the terrible and the wonderful blend together. At the moment of the greatest ecstasy, something awful will happen. He’ll find the sublime in a pit of despair. This is a childlike gift, and it shows both in the final product and in the process. Where the Wild Things Are took years to make, with many periods of despair, but Spike was always able to see wonder in the story and in the film. I’d have run away screaming long ago.
Catherine O’Hara (Judith – Voice)
Did you get to work with Maurice Sendak during the making of the film?
Spike set up an iChat with him and all of us actors... It was a beautifully long conversation-I laughed and cried. Maurice spoke so poignantly, lovingly and respectfully about children. He told us about the book’s history; how teachers and some parents tried to get it banned. It was the first book in which a parent had sent a child to bed without dinner.
Have you done other films from a child’s perspective?
Doing Home Alone was like that; the whole story was from a child’s point of view. It’s lovely to try to get inside kids’ heads. I’d love to still look at the world the way I did as a child. That’s the great thing about having kids and having kids around you-getting to think young again.
But there’s also a dark side to being a kid...
Definitely, but it’s a good, hopeful dark. The thing that jerked me early on was how Max’s world is all about himself: that’s a child’s right. But by the end he kind of goes outside himself and shows compassion for the Wild Things. It’s sweet. The dark side in the movie might be the way kids hurt each other, but they don’t mean to. It’s not out of malice; it’s out of survival. Whatever someone taught them is the way they treat other people.
What was the process of recording your lines for your Wild Thing character, Judith? Did you interact with the other voice actors?
We basically workshopped the script for two or three weeks on-camera with tiny mics attached to our heads. We actually shot it just us as ourselves, which became the basic track for the movie and a guideline for the actors in Australia who were inside the actual bodies of the Wild Things. We had big foam cubes for props-to be our homes or whatever we needed... But there wasn’t a little boy to play Max, so Spike and Catherine Keener took turns. She would play the sensitive, sweet Max and Spike would play the Max you just wanted to smack.
Do you identify with Judith?
Oh, dear... I’m sure certain parts of her. There are certain kids you look at and just go, “Um, when do you have to be home?” But we’re not perfect and we never were, even when we were children. So, you bring on whatever you can relate to for yourself. You think of a bad day when you’re grouchy and wonder, “Why do I think that way? Well, I’ve been hurt or I’m lonely or I really want to be liked and I have a tough time making friends.” I guess that’s why my character hangs around Ira, Forest Whitaker’s character, because he’s gentle and kind around people-and I get to hang right beside him.
Casey Storm (Costume Designer)
With Max’s wolf suit, we wanted to take this iconic image in the book and update it, giving it more attitude and making it more mature while keeping its boyishness-like adding the fingerless gloves, having cut-off pants, Max wearing Converse instead of the suit having clawed feet. It also has the snap underneath the hood so it looks more like a piece of clothing rather than something Mom made. After we made most of our decisions, Spike and I called Maurice and said, “We’re a little nervous about the stuff we’re doing and we don’t want you to be offended.” Maurice just said, “First of all, this book is not sacred and I don’t want it to be treated that way. This is a book that I wrote a long time ago. Obviously, I only wanted Spike to make the movie, but I don’t hold it in some regard that it can’t be changed or it can’t be moved around a little bit.” So, Maurice’s blessing made it a lot easier to move forward.
What looks like one wolf suit in the movie was actually more like 101 wolf suits. We had Max and then we had sailing doubles, a kid double, a photo double, a stunt double, and an adult-little-person double; sometimes Spike was a double for over-the-shoulder stuff. Then we had to put the different versions of the color in the suit: day for day, day for night, night for night, fireside... It first started with a sketch and then went to my art people who had a 30-step process of what needed to happen. There was this amazing amount of work that went into this super-basic pajama suit. And then what it goes through in the movie-like rolling through hills and trees and everything else-it just gets trashed.
Catherine Keener (Mom) vs. Max Records (Max)
Do you remember the first time the two of you met?
KEENER: I was shooting Into the Wild in Astoria, Oregon, and Max and his family drove to meet me. Max came in and we read together for a few hours. I remember thinking how intelligent and evolved you were, Max, and I didn’t know if you were messing with me. [Laughs] Then I realized, “He’s just Max”-you’re on your own plane. Super evolved, but a kid at the same time. What do you remember about me, Max? Was I a little tough on you?
MAX: You probably were. I don’t remember it, though.
KEENER: I was just saying, “Let’s get to it.” I felt like we could function on the same level. I was working so I didn’t have a lot of time to be with you, but I always appreciated that you never held it against me. You were open to me.
MAX: What was the first scene we shot together?
KEENER: I think your first scene was the snowball fight, and I was there working with you off-camera. The first scene we shot together on-camera...was it upstairs in the bunk bed? That was a very intimate scene; you were very upset. I remember one shot we had to have Spike in place of you-we could only work you so long. [Laughs] Spike had to crawl into bed so I was doing my off-camera with him-and he wasn’t you, Max.
Can you think of specific things that you helped each other get through on the set?
MAX: I think, Keener, you were pretty much like the cavalry. You kicked in when I was really, really tired and sort of pissed off at Spike that I was still working.
KEENER: Thanks, sweetie. I like that. I learned everything about the story from Max. I think he pretty much lived it out for all of us; without him, we wouldn’t have gotten it right. The soulfulness of this story was the collaboration between Spike and Max-and, obviously, Maurice. I learned a lot about letting go as a mother, and seeing someone for who they are as a child. Adults often project on children, and I think Max Records is very similar to our Max in that they both must be heard. Max in the movie demanded it and Max Records does so in a quiet way. I think Spike cast Max because he’s a unique person. I learned a lot of love from that.
Max was saying that he and your son got each other through the quiet moments of shooting.
KEENER: There was a brotherhood among a lot of the kids on set-girls and boys. The kids were very much an important part of the movie. Max wasn’t the focal point even though the movie was centered around him. Everyone shared-it was a pack. I think that was helpful for you, right Max?
MAX: Yeah, they were all just as vital to the making of the movie as me or anyone else.
KEENER: There was just so much life in the making of this movie, and so much play, that it’s unavoidable to miss this feeling. I was so moved by the whole thing and by our relationship. Everybody was trying so hard for everyone else, and there’s so much beauty in that.
Were those feeling obvious, Max? Have you learned as an actor to pull those real emotions into your scenes?
MAX: Yeah, definitely. I think the key element to acting is that it isn’t acting: You gotta make it real.
KEENER: Part of it’s luck. If you’re aware and focused on what’s happening right then, then it’s more likely that luck will hit you; you’ll be able to recognize it. We found a lot of lightning in the bottle on this one, because Spike is always pushing; he doesn’t set limits.
Spike said he was constantly asking all the assembled artists to pull it back, to keep it innocent. It sounds like the kids were the bullshit buffers.
MAX: That’s how we roll.
KEENER: That’s how we roll, Max! [Laughs] We were always trying to distill it; to access real feelings, the real core of your simple emotions. Where anger comes from: It’s really wild and uncontrollable and you can’t articulate it as much as you learn to put form into it. As you grow older, you keep trying to put form into it so it becomes understandable, but when you’re a kid, you don’t really know how to get someone to understand you.
MAX: There’s a music video I think you will really like, Keener. It’s a song called “Kids” by MGMT. There’s this kid and he dances everywhere where the adults don’t see things. He sees monsters and stuff, and nobody notices that they’re there. It sort of illustrates that point.
KEENER: I’m getting what you’re saying, Max. Instead of articulating it, you can just use a reference: “Look into this song; watch this video; understand me.”
Speaking of referencing, Max’s dad sent a bunch of photos from the set for you to look through and talk about.
KEENER: These are really fantastic. It made me remember a lot that we did together. There’s Casey, the costume designer, dirtying Max up [Page 57]! Casey is one of Spike’s stalwarts. He and Max were really great pals. The wolf suit was constantly too clean; we had to dirty it up everyday.
MAX: Actually, he’s cleaning me up. He’s dumping hand sanitizer on the wolf suit because we just had a giant mud-ball fight.
KEENER: Aw, look at [Page 58]! That’s Sienna, Vince [Landay, producer]’s daughter on the right. And there’s Sonny! That was the crew: Max, Sonny, and me. Sonny did all the [Wild Thing] illustrations and he was the suit performer for Alexander.
Is there a picture that sums each of you up?
KEENER: I think [the photo below] really sums up Max. These were his stand-ins and body doubles. That’s what I’m saying about the set; you can’t even tell which one Max is.
MAX: I’ve got one! [Above]
KEENER: Aw, that’s us right there. Sleeping in a pile. Max would play a lot of his scenes with the Wild Things with me, so we were very involved in the story together. The cavalry! This is an example of Spike-he wants everybody to get in it with him.
What is the most important thing you learned about yourselves from this?
KEENER: Looking through these pictures, I remember how much I realized I could do during the course of this film. How risk would pay off and there was no harm to it. Embarrassment didn’t really exist. It was just so free, and it was great to be reminded of that: How you feel that free as a child before things start to scare you.
MAX: I’m going to go with the same thing. I guess it shows that with a little childlike naivetŽ and a crew of 300 people, you can do quite a bit.
KEENER: Didn’t you amaze yourself, Max? What you’re capable of?
MAX: Yes, it was pretty creepy.
KEENER: It’s almost jarring when you’re constantly pushing the limits of what you think you can do, but it’s OK-there’s no harm.
Sonny Gerasimowicz (Wild Things Designer/Alexander – Suit Perfomer)
Spike was looking for people to illustrate production drawings for the movie. I think he knew it would help to get somebody outside the movie industry. I was an illustrator that kind of fit the project; it doesn’t hurt to let someone else take a crack at it. I got a meeting set up with him and we became friends very quickly. I can communicate with him well, which is as important as being able to draw.
The majority of it was Spike having a specific idea for each character-really building each one’s personality. The characters-the body language and behavior and how the other characters react to them-are what drive the design. I was on a week-by-week basis: “That went well, let’s get Sonny to come by and supervise the creature construction and make sure they match the drawings.” It went from me doing a couple sketches to designing the final approved designs for the characters. I even ended up playing one of the Wild Things in the movie.
I’d done the first round of sketches and then Maurice Sendak wanted to talk to me on the phone to make sure he knew who it was that was working on his movie and drawings. I knew right away I wasn’t going to try and draw in Maurice’s style; it never comes out right when you’re trying to do something that somebody else did. I think Maurice appreciated that I didn’t do that and I took my own liberties; not just trying to please somebody for the wrong reason. It was more about the character development and having respect for his drawings and his book.
Maurice was basically checking me out to see if I was on the level. He had finally accepted Spike as the person to do this movie and now Spike had chosen me to do the drawings. On the phone, Maurice asked, “What do you do? What do you draw?” Then there was a point where he just let the gates down. I guess he has a lot of respect for people or things that are creative. He wasn’t controlling at all; he wasn’t protective. He was really honest: “I don’t think this looks like Max at all. It’s too old. This isn’t him.” He would even ask me, “Hey, do you mind if I trace over your drawing and do a version of what I was thinking?” He was asking me. I would be like, “Are you joking?” Maurice was amazing. You couldn’t ask for anything more.
KK Barrett (Production Designer) vs. Geoff McFetridge (Title Artist & Graphic Designer)
What was the nature of your work on the film, and how did your roles intersect?
KK Barrett: I did production design, which is getting in with Spike very early and trying to determine the visual elements in front of the camera. Strangely, every time I’ve worked with Spike, there’s been a buzzword that I would come up with: Adaptation. was “depth” and this one was “graphic.” We tried to make things very simple to digest.
Geoff McFetridge: I started to talk to Spike just before things went into production. What I’ve been doing is mostly behind-the-scenes and has nothing to do with the actual film. In a marketing sense, I was coming up with ideas for designs for T-shirts and other things. Later on, it became things like type for the trailer and titles for the film. So, most of it was helping with the film’s identity.
Barrett: On all of Spike’s projects, he finds good people; he entrusts them to have the sensibility to take that vision a step further. He’s very careful in protecting every aspect of the film-visually, sonically, and even with marketing. He knew Karen had the right sensibility to do the film’s music; it couldn’t be just handed over to someone who does every film. And, I think that applies to Geoff’s graphics as well.
McFetridge: I don’t work on anything else in Hollywood except stuff for Spike. I’m a total outsider and I think he values that. He knows I’m not just reaching into the bag of standard tricks. I’ll always defer to him and I think he likes that level of control. But, on this project there’s a little more freedom: Spike was a little more willing to let images happen. Before, you felt like he wanted to control people’s experiences so closely; he’d see a glimpse of something and think about how it would translate to a T-shirt. Now, I think he wants to expand that language. But still, I’ll make something and he’ll say, “No, that needs to be more rough. Like... Ôleft-handed.’”
Barrett: On this film, regardless of wanting to create our own world or graphics, we had the legacy of the book to deal with. It’s the burden of having to come up with something that’s as pleasing yet not really relying on the original. You can’t just take Maurice’s hand and draw something. I think “left-handed” is a great example, because Maurice is just too good, and I think it would be pointless to emulate him when the film really is its own beast.
McFetridge: I think we probably came across a lot of the same issues. For you, you’re putting things into the real world; but for me, I can’t draw things from the movie and I can’t draw things from the book. I’m kind of drawing third things.
Barrett: One thing that’s very common is the charred attitude of things, or the sense of play with things. Like the cross-hatching in the book-all that stick-weaving and bird-nesting that shows up continually in the film is my cross-hatching equivalent. But I also thought it was something that Max would want to play with. I may be claiming it retroactively, but that was the “graphic” breakdown I wanted to be consistent with.
How much of your job is just knowing how to read Spike?
Barrett: I think it’s a two-way street of trust. I was trying to think of whether I would rather be given a set of parameters when I start something, or just observe the material and then spew out my first impressions. It’s definitely preferable to do that and then hear some parameters, but it’s really hard to get rid of those first impressions. If you go in with somebody’s hard set of instructions it’s difficult, but when you’ve worked with someone over and over, you have that kind of soft sensibility that guides you but still lets you be free. Sometimes you have to meet in the middle; sometimes the spark is perfectly aligned from the start. And then again, there are times when it never aligns. Sometimes I’ll have an idea that just never fits, and sometimes Spike will get an idea that we’ll experiment with until it’s beaten to death and then he’ll say, “Let’s let that go.”
McFetridge: There are so many decisions to be made on a project that just having a guideline helps you narrow things down. But, there’s still so much that’s up to you, and then you’re constantly presenting wild cards. I think that’s a good thing about Spike-you still find yourself going out on a limb, rather than just giving him what he likes.
Do you think people are expecting a “film by Spike Jonze” rather than a film about Where the Wild Things Are?
Barrett: What we were discussing about his sensibility-I think it must start to resonate with his audience. Across all of the crazy things that he did, from features to Jackass to all the other things he tosses off, I think people want to be surprised rather than know what to expect. Even if there is a “Spike branding,” I think it’s one of pleasant expectation.
McFetridge: Yeah, it’s the brand that’s unbranded-consistently undefined. You have to be ready for anything.
Lance Bangs (Documentarian)
Spike and I met in 1994 when he was doing a Sonic Youth video. I had been shooting the band’s tour; when he needed more footage of them, Sonic Youth asked me to send Spike a tape. He had me come out to L.A. to start working together on music videos and documentaries. I’m always making films and finding things I’m excited about and I tend to send things I’m interested in on one film to people in other films. Spike was having trouble casting the role of Max - he’d gone through all the traditional casting agencies and seen every aspiring boy from age 7 to 12 in New York, L.A., London and Canada. Because I travel in so many artistic communities around North America, they decided to send me off to hold casting sessions in different art cities, like Athens, Georgia, and Portland, Oregon, to find kids that were not aspiring actors. We tried to get Jeff Tweedy’s kids in Chicago, and Lee Ranaldo’s kids were checked out - all these different pockets of artists around the world that might have a kid with the right temperament. So, there was this kid named Max Records I’d seen in Portland whose dad was a photographer; I knew the kid was in a Death Cab for Cutie video that a friend was shooting, so I went to check out the set. Max seemed like an interesting personality and was the right age, and he kind of stood out and was questioning and challenging all the direction he was given on set. I went over to his house and filmed him going through a couple scenes and read pages from the script with him and got really excited. When Catherine Keener came to Oregon to shoot Into the Wild, the Records family and my family went to her shoot and hung out with her for the day. We filmed her doing scenes with Max and had a really intense experience. At this point, we’d already filmed all the Wild Things voice actors, the summer had gone by and we were supposed to be in Australia shooting the movie; so, I was baffled that they hadn’t found the kid. I thought this must be the right guy. They brought Max down to L.A. to meet with Spike. Max’s parents are both really remarkable people; they’re not trying to push their kid into show business, so for them it was a moral dilemma. I was in Portland trying to give them advice and I was reassuring them that if they were ever gonna do a movie, these were the people to do it with. They picked up on that feeling and decided to go for the adventure. They got passports rushed, figured out school and went and had an amazing experience. Max has remained a remarkable kid through the whole thing; anyone would get crushed under the stress of learning lines and it’s a pretty physically demanding role - he’s onscreen in almost every shot and had to show such a range of emotions and be physical and run and dodge giant explosions... and in his pajamas essentially the whole time. I was on set in Australia doing behind-the-scenes Wild Things documentary footage and going back and forth to the States to visit Maurice Sendak for this separate documentary Spike and I were making [Tell Them Anything You Want: A Portrait of Maurice Sendak, airing in October on HBO]. I would tell Maurice what was happening and make little pieces for him to watch. Through the course of Spike editing Wild Things, I was also documenting everything that went on with the studio and the fight to keep the film the way Spike wanted it. When it became clear in 2004 that Spike was developing Wild Things and Maurice wanted him to do it, we started shooting footage at Maurice’s house in Connecticut. The things Maurice was saying were so amazing but so fucked up that you don’t necessarily know if people would take their kids to see the movie if they saw what he had to say. It’s incredibly personal and intimate - these dazzling, witty, perverse conversations. He tells some stories about what got him going as an artist and the definitive things that happened in his life - kind of intense confessions. As we kept filming, Maurice would go through various ailments or setbacks, health-wise. He’d always been obsessed with death and was always telling us from the time we’d started, “I’m gonna be dead soon; I don’t have much more to live; I’m never gonna be able to see the movie by the time it comes out...” At first I took it really seriously, and then as time went on, I realized he’s more preoccupied with it as an obsession than as a real condition. Spike was a perfect match for Where the Wild Things Are because he takes the emotional lives of kids seriously in a way that isn’t patronizing or condescending. His sensibility and his ability to say “no” to people who try and cramp something down into a previously recognized form meant that he was willing to continually fight or question assumptions and make something that made sense to him. I think when people see it, they’ll recognize that and realize that it feels a lot more profound than other films with chipmunks or groundhogs or whatever. I think there could be people who are disappointed that a couple of things in the book don’t appear in the movie, but hopefully they’ll realize Spike made his own film out of those feelings and ideas that are in Where the Wild Things Are - it’s not just those 20 pages animated on screen. F
This article is from FILTER Issue 37
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